I was having a conversation the other day, over dinner, with Greg, Samantha and a few other folks. (I only mention Greg and Sam’s names because our other friends don’t yet exist in the blog world.) Anyway, amongst conversations about dating, marriage and desires, we somehow ended up discussing the common belief that Jesus Christ descended to hell during the 3 days. Both Sam and I agreed that this was most definitely in the Bible and I was rather vehemently convinced of this fact (or so I thought). However, Greg held his ground and mentioned that he had actually researched this very topic and found that this premise is only discussed in the Apostles Creed (hyper link provided by Sam). Soooo, now after performing several word searches on “hell”, “Hades”, “descend” and “keys” I’ve come up lacking. Greg was correct. The Bible most definitely does not state that Jesus descended to hell.
This realization again brings up my same frustration with false teaching in the church. Obviously the concept of Jesus descending to hell to get the keys has been drilled into me head by someone, as I’ve never even studied the Apostles Creed. I’ve heard of it, but never researched it. I don’t care if every “saint” and supposed godly wise man who ever existed states something. If the teaching is outside of scripture it ought not to be taught. Discussed, yes, taught, absolutely NO.
So Greg, you were right and I was wrong. Everyone else feel free to pipe in (if anyone still reads this blog. I know I’ve been very bad about keeping up on this).
Here are the relevant (or not so relevant) verses I found during my word searches. None clearly reference this concept:
Acts 2:26-28
Matthew 16:17-20
Revelation 1:17-19
Revelation 20:13-15
Yes there are many possible inferences, but nothing clear. I recently completed an OT study and I don’t recall anything there which would elude to this belief either.
Again this is an open topic. This is the first time in my life I’ve ever pondered this, so please comment and share, which ever side you agree with. These are simply my preliminary findings. If I find any more pertinent scripture I will post them.
9 comments:
Sam,
Perhaps a better (though I'm not sure how relevant) question is: Is there a difference between death, Hades and Hell? Revelations indicates that death and Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire, along with satan, the beast, the anti-christ and the false prophet (if these are all separate beings). I haven’t studied enough on these topics to provide a fully informed and confident answer.
C.,
I almost didn’t publish your posting; however, I did express an open invitation, so thank you for your honest thoughts.
However, I will have to encourage you to pursue one of two directions. One, if you’re a Gnostic I would encourage you to discontinue seeking out carnal truth, that is self-glorification through written affirmation (in this instance), and seek out the only truth found in the Word. I would especially encourage you to read the gospel of John (for encouragement in Christ. Also someone very close to me came to know the Lord through reading this book) and then the rest of the NT books written by Paul, John and Peter. Their letters repeatedly come against false teachings, especially the initial instances of Gnosticism (the major and minor prophets of the OT also touch on the penalty false teachers will face).
Two, if you consider yourself a believer, I would encourage you to keep this line of thinking you just expressed and take it before the throne of Jesus Christ. In doing this I promise you will see the folly for what it truly is. That is, again, self-glorification, without regard to Jesus Christ as the only means towards salvation. You will see that the Bible is neither pro-male nor pro-female. This perspective is utterly self-seeking and carnal in origin. Both will face judgment and both are required to be obedient to His teachings. You will see that the entirety of scripture has been written for Jesus Christ and His glory, not mans (male or female). Our corruption (sinfulness or total depravity) expressly prohibits us from ever attaining any eternal glory outside of Jesus Christ. His attainment of glory, through sacrifice (through the shedding of His blood) has bought us our eternal salvation and fellowship with God. You will see that Jesus and the Father are one (John 10:30). You will see that what you’re indicating here is that man, not God, has the authority to dictate truth and salvation. However, men are given authority and power by God (John 19:10-11). Therefore God, in His sovereignty, has protected His word, not man.
I fervently state, with the gifts God has provide me, that with all my knowledge, heart, wisdom and faith (in Jesus Christ), the entirety of scripture and the truth and testimony of Jesus Christ, can be found only in the Holy Bible. Before my Lord and savior Jesus Christ, I state with conviction, that all other books, outside of the Holy Bible, are utterly false!
”The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.” (Revelation 22:17-19)
I spoke with my dad about this topic and he suggested I take a look at 1Pe 3:13-22. Even so, these verses don't clearly indicated Jesus descended to hell.
Many assumptions can be drawn from these verses, with regards to Jesus post death, but the lessons are obvious, witnessing. These verses have less to do with Jesus preaching to the prisoners from Noah's time and more to do with an example of the death found in sin apart from Jesus Christ. We are provided with an example of preaching, a motivation and then practical application. It's about effective witnessing!
Don't allow yourselves to get distracted from the greater truths and lessons in the Word. This is exactly what the Pharisees did. Again man's doctrines are irrelevant. Only the Word of God endures forever.
Hey Bill & Sam,
As you've seen, the referenced scripture on this creed statement is rather vague and mysterious.
Calvin sounded a bit obstinate in his writing on the subject. I'm not so sure I agree with his comment "If Christ had died only a bodily death, it would have been ineffectual. No — it was expedient at the same time for him to undergo the severity of God’s vengeance, to appease his wrath and satisfy his just judgment. For this reason, he must also grapple hand to hand with the armies of hell and the dread of everlasting death." Huh? A bit presumptuous in my opinion, given scripture's lack of detail.
Like you demonstrated Bill, there is a diff between Hades and Hell. But if "prison" is Hades, that seems to refer to a place of limbo between death and heaven/hell. I don't agree with that. If prison is hell, Calvin is correct, but I'd still have a hard time understanding what Jesus was doing preaching to souls who must already be damned. Doesn't make sense to me, theologically, why any of the faithful from the OT would have to stick it out in Hell till Christ could die and go release them.
I believe prison refers to ones state of "total depravity". The 1 Peter sidenote might mean Christ's action through the HS towards Noah and his fam back in the day.
Here's a previous comment I wrote:
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8390262&postID=115842062560618593
I don't have my Grudem's handy, but I think he covers this matter in some detail.
Rereading 1 Peter 3:18-20 as well as Genesis 6&7, I don't see Noah and his fam being disobedient until perhaps after the flood. This doesn't necessarily exclude them from being the "spirits in prison", but I can definitely see now why those spirits may actually be others from his day in hell. Still not enough evidence, in my opinion, to have a firm conclusion. But I won't say Jesus couldn't have gone to hell. He may very well have and, in his mysterious ways, I may just not understand why.
Greg,
Yeah I'm not disregarding the possibility that Jesus descended to hell. I just don't see clear evidence in scripture for it, nor for a clear reason why it was necessary. Jesus did say "It is finished". In this case should He rather have said "It's almost finished. Just give me 3 days"?
Again Calvin was just a man, a sinner like all of us. He had his moments and he had his slumps, like any of us. Perhaps he's right on the money, perhaps he's not. In my opinion the verses are still up for far too much interpretation.
To be honest I really don't know the full extent of what Christ's death on the cross did. I suspect it was like this huge change to everything which has ever existed and ever will. I believe His sacrifice finally opened up access for His children to heaven and for the sons of perdition to hell. Beyond this I'm not sure, though I have a personal opinion, but it's not much more then that. I will digress as this could very easily turn into another article.
It might be good to research two words sometimes translated as "hell". The first, "Hades",is a more general word for the place of all dead. "Gehenna" is more the place of final punishment and is derived from the Hebrew words meaning "valley of Hinnom" located outside Jerusalem. If Im not mistaken, sacrifices to bael used to go on there.
I'm posting this on behalf of:
eely411 (http://openid.aol.com/eely411):
I'm studying the apostle's creed for confirmation and my mom said that she didnt believe he descended into hell either... im still not clear on whether catholics believe that he did or didn't.
eely411,
I haven't studied enough on Catholicism to understand what they exactly believe on this topic. I do know they believe in Purgatory, which I believe they believe to be an "inbetween" or sort of "waiting room" for souls. Waiting till judgement day. Others believe we die and are immediately judged.
I'm sure there are plenty of Catholic sites which contain more information on what they believe with regards to this topic.
Post a Comment